For the ACUK Reach prayer meeting, Ps Alan Skeyne interviewed Pastor Tariq from Pakistan.
So, Pastor Tariq, the reason we’ve invited you here is because this is a reach Zoom prayer night, and we are representing three geographical areas where the acuk is mainly focused. That’s Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe, and so we rotate around and just invite a guest to be with us. And so it is your honor tonight that we have invited you to be with us and to explain to us about Pakistan and the situation that you are facing in the Apostolic Church there. So first of all, Tariq, can you just explain to us a little bit about Pakistan as a nation, and where you are based, where you live and that kind of thing.
Thank you. Okay. First of all, I want to say greeting from Pakistan from a church, and it’s been great blessing to me to pray with you on weekend, and also today you are standing with me. It’s a blessing. Pakistan is a Muslim country, and which calculate, you know, altogether Muslim, Muslim people are 97% and only one 1.5% are Christian. So it’s very little amount of our community. But thank God that God is protecting us. There are so many difficulties, but I thank God that God is with us, and he is protecting us every day. Praise God. And where exactly do you live in Pakistan? I’m living in Faisalabad.
Yeah, so, so is that in the south, or it’s in, I think, not in a South, but it will be in the right. Anthony is trying to oh, there we are. Anthony is showing us up where you are. Thank you, Anthony, that is excellent. We get an we get an appreciation. Yeah, of that. And Pakistan is surrounded by other nations. What countries are on the borders of Pakistan?
Iran, India and Afghanistan and also, you know, China.
Journey to Faith and Leadership
China in the north, isn’t it? Right? Yes, yeah, okay, so tell us a little about your family, yourself and just want, how have you come to be the leader of the Apostolic Church in Pakistan?
It’s long way to tell you, Pastor, yeah, but you can tell us in short, tell us in short, yeah, yeah. I’m born in a Catholic family.
My parents were Catholic, but I, I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior, and I, I surrender my life to Him: 17 March, 1985, and from that time, I start to join the Apostolic Church with Pastor Nazir Jagel, who was the ex president of apostolic church in Pakistan. He have done a great work in my life as a as a national leader. He was a very kind to me whenever he travel even I was a young boy at that time. He take me with him to go around in the country, in Sargodha, Lahore, Islamabad, Karachi, other cities, and I got much experience with other leaders, to join with them, and to pray with them, and to also have a time of fellowship with them, you know, and share the gospel with the with the different tribes in Pakistan.
That’s great. So from your background of being raised as a Catholic, then you have come into a Pentecostal church. How that transition happened for you?
Because there was a one question in my mind, and it was a John chapter, first verse, 12. So. That whoever you know, accept Lord Jesus Christ. He will be, be a son of God, you know. So they are not born with the flesh and with the born, you know. But they are. They are born from the Lord, you know. So I asked this question to my priest, and he said, you, you don’t need to worry about it. We will let you know when the time will right. Time will be for you. So I said,
Okay, I was searching around, and I, I asked to pastor Gil that he can explain me, you know. So he, he done a a good job in my life. And, and another pastor Islam named Pharaoh’s W, he’s from Sialkot. He’s still living in this planet. And he, I, I’m very, you know how you say first disciple to him myself, you know, and I learned from him too much.
And you have come into leadership of the church, and what was happening with you to bring you into leadership?
In my youth, I was, I was a youth leader for Pakistan, but apostrophe church. And then I got invitation from Denmark, you know, to join Bible School in Denmark in 2000 I got, I got invitation in 98 but at that time I was not, or you say, able to fly to the to Denmark. But in 2000 I traveled to Denmark and joined the Bible school. Amen, Safina was with me, and my eldest son, he was with us. So we, we spend a great time there, yeah. And we have a great teaching from Peter Potro, Ben Christianson and other leaders, yeah, yeah.
And there was, there was about 28 nationalities, but praise God that I was there. And, yeah, I represent Pakistan. Okay, so you had that great foundation put into your life in Bible college, but then you have been brought forward as the leader for the Apostolic Church there, yes, because when I came back from Denmark, I was not acceptable to the elder pastors in Pakistan, and they, they Don’t accept my thoughts. They don’t accept my way, how I want to live my life. I don’t want to serve.
But unfortunately, everyone you know left me alone. So I said, Okay, I pray to God, even the foreigner, people, those who are standing with me, Pastor Francis sister from France. He was, you know, backbone of my ministry in Pakistan at that time. And they visit Pakistan in 2005 with Ben Christian son and John Johannes Henson, maybe you know him. So they had a great time with me, with my church, and it was a great time. But they asked to ex president that, no, we want to have a next leader of apostrophe church, you know, Pastor Tariq. The refuse. He said, No, there is no way I, I will be on this, you know, platform, and no, no, no one can take my place. So there was no tag agree with him, you know, in debate or in in talking.
But after, I think 2008 pastor, Andrew Jenkin, he traveled to Pakistan, and then I met with him. So pastor Francis and Andrew Jenkin, they are very close friend. So they share the thought with each other, and then they arrange the party.
How you say, Yeah, welfare party for Pastor Gil but at that time they say that all the arrangement bill goes will be done by the pastor Tariq. But my national leader, was not happy with this. He said that we will do with our own leaders.
Yeah, so, but it is a difficult time. I had been, you know, but after when they in in 2010 pastor, Andrew Jenkin, he came again and he visit me, and he, he stayed with me, and then he, he did declare that I will be accepted by the Apostolic Church UK to be a national leader.
So praise God from that. Yeah, and that was 2010 when, when I registered Apostolic Church in Pakistan with the name of the Apostolic Church Pakistan. From that day we are registered with the government.
Situation and Vision
Okay, alright, that’s a great story, and it’s interesting to hear about the struggle that has been in your life, but now God has opened a way for you, and now you’re carrying the responsibility of the church there in Pakistan, and that’s part of the reason we are together, is to hear your story so that we can pray and the Lord just do great things in Pakistan. So tell us about the situation of the Apostolic Church as it at this moment, and perhaps a bit of the vision that you have going forward in the time to come.
I want to see apostle church is as like a big tree that others can stand behind him, you know, and other can sit in the shadow of apostolic church so he can give the umbrella to other. Those are not the apostolic. Those are not willing to work with apostolic but my son, my elder son and myself, we are working hard to, to do, do this, you know, work for the glory of God. Because my son, he have great communication in English. Because, you know, he, he, he been to the Lasal school. Maybe, you know La Salle English medium. So that’s okay, right? Yeah, that’s why they, they had a good English, because they learned the English from basic and I, I have only five year to learn English from sixth level to 10.
Oh, okay, right, but you’re speaking very good English, my brother.
That’s very kind of you that you even, even, you know, I cannot explain how all the how the word came in my mind, but thank God that you understand me indeed.
Yeah. So how? How is the Apostolic Church? Because we are talking in the context of apostolic tonight. And you know, how many churches are there, and what is the challenges that you’re facing?
We have independent, you know, three areas, Karachi, Islamabad and Faisalabad and all at that. In the past, they have been, you know, working together. But right now, they are working in their own areas. They are not having any, you know, any kind of, you know, debate, any kind of collaboration with each other. But they do their own ministry, and they are, they are well established.
Yeah, so they have, they have some, some church buildings. In Karachi, they have some, some of the church building. But in Faisalabad, we don’t have any church building. So this time, the Government of Pakistan have asked to me, you know, to give them, or you say, evidence of the Apostolic Church, physical building? Okay, where we are, you know, working?
Yeah. So, because you and I have been working together on this problem, just explain to everyone you know what has happened because you have recently been registered as a church, yeah, yeah, what the problems were if you had not been registered? Because it’s how you say mistreatment, government mistreatment of the Christian community, you know.
And if we apply for some something, you know, to have the like a registration from the government. I have been registered in 2022 but I got the registered, you know, in 24 because it was my heart, hard, heart struggle, you know. And I, I complain them again and again. That why you are not resisting my church, you know. I, I put three application in six months, you know. But after, after third, I was accepted, and we were praying hard for this, you know, registration, and it’s a great miracle that God, have we? Have we got a NOC from the Punjab government, that there is no any terrorism, or, you say, thoughts in our mind, and we are Christian, and we will serve the nation with the love and kindness, and we will preach the gospel to with Not, not to harm anybody, but to be with the, you know, in love and kindness, right?
Yeah, because, if you had not been registered, did it mean that you could not preach the gospel?
Yes, yes, that’s true. And even the No, because, because in 2017 our Pakistan Government have closed. I had, you know, church account with the apostrophe name, the Apostolic Church Pakistan, in from 2010 till now 2017 but the close in 2017 and now I need to be get registered with the with the Charity Commission, They will give me a certificate we have applied for the registration, and thank God that I submit my file two days ago, and now the next step will be that we will receive the certificate from the Punjab Charity Commission. There will be our charity number. There will be our church name, and I will be represent that this. I’m the national leader of this church, and they will verify, verify me, all my team and all my church members where we are serving in Pakistan.
Sharing the Gospel in Pakistan
Right! Thank you for explaining that. And because in some nations, we have complete freedom, but we know in a country like Pakistan, that is not the case, and as you have explained already tonight, there’s a Muslim nation. So can you, because we want to learn from you what the challenges are as you stand up for Jesus and preach about Jesus, what are the challenges that you’re facing? Because we want to pray about that tonight.
Yeah. First of all, I want to tell you that if you are a student of Bible, you can teach, or you can share the gospel with every, everyone you know, if you know the verses by heart, and if, if, if you know the Bible, you know, they will, they will. They will ask you, what, what, what, what it means. And if you have study about it, then you can explain their questions. And I had been, you know, in the there is a famous it market in in, in Faisalabad, and I have been debate at that time, at that place, you know, with Muslim and guy who was a, like you know very how you say enthusiasm, in enthusiastic in in his religion. He says that you, you, your Bible have been changed. And do you accept? Do you? Do you believe that Jesus Christ have atonement for you and you. You have been, you know, or you say, the king, you have been set apart.
Yeah, you have been appointed, distinguish from a from the blood of Lord Jesus Christ, you know. Okay, okay, so I explained him in, in my language, in utu, and I give him even had Bible in his office. So when I, when I share the Gospel, you know, he, he, he hold me Bible, and he, he, he want to know all the questions answer, you know. But thank God that at the time, it was, I think, nine, nine years ago. But he was totally satisfied. And after that, he said, at the end of my meeting, he said that I have been debating with many Christians. They have no answer. But you are, you are successful in your study because, because I learned the word of God you know from different aspects, from different people you know. So thank God that God make me a tool for His Kingdom.
Okay, in practice, that’s a great story and a great credit to you that you know the Word of God like that, to be able to debate with the Muslims that are living around you. What about evangelism and mission? How is that working?
In 80? 1980 it was a, you know, we had a freedom to share the gospel industry, to analyze the the shops and every market we, we have been evangelizing with the OM, you know, oh yes, maybe you have operation mobilization, yeah, yes, myself and Safina have been, you know, member of this team, and I, I have been to jail for eight days in my country, and I have been beating, you know, twice a day.
Wow, wow.
It was, it was a great miracle that I came back safe from the even. There was some of the other leaders with me, you know, young guys, but we were evangelizing in the street, and thank God that God bring us back in his in his ministry, you know? Yeah, so the that really is a shock to us.
You know that because you’re evangelizing, you were arrested and beaten, and so that is something that we really need to pray about, you know, because if Christians in Pakistan are enduring this persecution, then it is our duty here in acuk to pray for you. So thanks for explaining about that. And Is there freedom for you to evangelize, or are people against you?
Yeah, wwe had a freedom. There is a law in Pakistan that we can publish. We can, we can evangelize the community with the gospel. But we don’t speak about their book, about their profit, that that’s strictly, you know, law, yeah, we have to be, you know, very careful when we speak, yes, but we are speaking, but people, when, when we have a healing crusade, people will come. There is a no obligation for the people. They come, even the Muslim and other to join with us, and they enjoy our services, you know, yeah.
Last Prayer Request
Well, unfortunately, our time has really rushed on. Pastor Tariq, but we want to just thank you from the church here in the United Kingdom that you have given up your evening. We know this is the time you should be sleeping, and so we appreciate that, but especially how you have shared about your life and about the church and the challenges you’re facing. We have heard about what God is doing and that you don’t have any church building, but evangelism and mission is still going forward, and so we will be praying on these aspects, these challenges that you are facing, and just be sure, assured that we have heard what you’ve said tonight, and we take these things to heart, and especially reach Asia will be carrying these things forward in their prayer time.
Yeah, the last thing I want to say that if my people have a church building, they have a security. The government will give us a security when we have a church building, even when no as we are registered as apostolic church, we can give application to the DCO dept commissioner to have the security for our people. But if we are not rich we are arrested by the government. We, we, we will be, you know, fire in in a minute, and we never know in a second what will happen for with the Christian community, okay? Because in, in last year, there is a huge town, you know, in this town Tirumala, it’s have been burned. Totally Christian people have been burned, or they have lost everything, what they have in their homes because of the religion. Yeah, but thank God that God is still on the throne, and He’s in control, and He’s doing his work, and he’s with us. Amen.
Yeah, okay. Thank you very much, Pastor. We wish you a good evening. You, and we send our greetings to your old family, to Safina, and we just pray that God will be with you in every way that you have explained to us tonight, amen. Amen.
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